Third Person Limited: A Books Podcast

 
So your manuscript was rejected by another publisher. Will you revise your work to meet the shifting whims of the marketplace, or hold steady to your uncompromising vision, bragging all the while about the rejections you’ve accumulated like tumbleweeds tangled in a barbed wire fence? Meanwhile, we also wonder if one can ever truly read a book alone, or if the various social contexts are inextricable from that experience, like tumbleweeds tangled in a barbed wire fence.
 
 
Works cited this episode:
 
“Why is everyone suddenly obsessed with reframing rejection?” Brittany Allen, LitHub
This Side of Paradise, F. Scott Fitzgerald
The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Tender is the Night, F. Scott Fitzgerald
All the Pretty Horses, Cormac McCarthy
Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy
“Host,” David Foster Wallace, The Atlantic
“In Defense of the Traditional Review,” Richard Brody, The New Yorker
Middlemarch, George Eliot
Sundial, Catriona Ward
Piranesi, Susanna Clarke
She’s Come Undone, Wally Lamb
I’m Losing You, Bruce Wagner
Don Quixote, Miguel de Cervantes
Moby-Dick, Herman Melville
“The Couch,” Seinfeld, created by Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld
Beloved, Toni Morrison

Will Nancy Drew, the Hardy Boys, Encyclopedia Brown, or any of the other fictional teen sleuths ever grow up? We spoke with Tom Ryan, whose novel We Had a Hunch throws adult versions of kid detectives into several harrowing grown-up situations, from hunting a serial killer to the slow-dawning realization that they’ve become middle-aged.
 
Plus: are contemporary works of art too literal? It’s no fun if a novel or a movie tells to your face its theme and meaning. That’s the message of our movie, Movies Should Not Tell You Their Meaning.
 
We Had a Hunch by Tom Ryan is out now.
 
Works Cited this episode:
 
Nancy Drew mysteries, Franklin W. Dixon/the Stratemeyer Syndicate
Hardy Boys mysteries, Franklin W. Dixon/the Stratemeyer Syndicate
The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, Agatha Christie
Keep This to Yourself, Tom Ryan
The Treasure Hunters Club, Tom Ryan
Murder, She Wrote, created by Peter S. Fischer, Richard Levinson, and
The Silence of the Lambs, dir. Jonathan Demme
“The New Literalism Plaguing Today’s Biggest Movies,” Namwali Serpell, The New Yorker
Anora, dir. Sean Baker
Cinderella, dir. Wilfred Jackson, Hamilton Luske, and Clyde Geronimi
Mad Men, created by Matthew Weiner
The Brutalist, dir. Brady Corbet
Invisible Man, Ralph Ellison
The Trial, Franz Kafka
Eradication, Jonathan Miles
The Housemaid, Frieda McFadden
Valley of the Dolls, Jacqueline Susann
The Daydreaming Boy, Micheline Aharonian Marcom
Outbreak, dir. Wolfgang Peterson
Friends, created by David Crane and Marta Kaufman
Field of Dreams, dir. Phil Alden Robinson
Shoeless Joe, W.P. Kinsella
Mikey and Nicky, dir. Elaine May
The Parker novels, Richard Stark
Tender is the Flesh, Agustina Bazterrica
The Jungle, Upton Sinclair
Sister Carrie, Theodore Dreiser

We have too many reviews and not enough interpretive criticism. At least, that’s what Nathan says, and it seems to hold water. A true critique engages your intellect and raises questions, while a review just says whether you should watch that movie/read that book/listen to that podcast.
In our second segment, we engage with Ivy Pochoda’s latest novel, Ecstasy, which itself engages with the classical play The Bacchae. We’re not saying a cult of drunken women who kill the men would solve all our problems, but maybe it’s a start.
Ecstasy by Ivy Pochoda is available now
Works cited this episode:
I Know What You Did Last Summer, dir. Jim GillespieReturn of the Jedi, dir. Richard MarquandThe Empire Strikes Back, dir. Irvin KershnerFargo, dir. Joel CohenSiskel & Ebert“Fargo Forum: Minnesota, Masculinity, Mike Yanagita, and more,” Noel Murray, Keith Phipps, Nathan Rabin, Tasha Robinson, Matt Singer, Scott Tobias, The Dissolve“Against Interpretation,” Susan SontagThe Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald“In Defense of the Traditional Review,” Richard Brody, The New YorkerVolcano, dir. Mick Jackson“It Lavas L.A.,” Richard Corliss, TIMECapital, Karl MarkThe Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. TolkienWonder Valley, Ivy PochodaSing Her Down, Ivy PochodaPride and Prejudice, Jane AustenThe Bacchae, EuripidesDemon Copperhead, Barbara KingsolverDavid Copperfield, Charles DickensLolita, Vladimir NabokovLiar Liar, dir. Tom Shadyac30 Rock, created by Tina Fey

Our hosts have ideas about what sort of books should have been included on the Voyager spacecraft, to support its heartwarming mission of spreading humanity to the stars. Would you have just sent the aliens your favorite book? Because maybe they don’t have the context to understand what a “Da Vinci Code” even is. And speaking of putting a lot of pressure on a book, TV creator Michael Schur’s How to Be Perfect put that pressure on itself. Philosophical ethics never sounded so good.
How to Be Perfect by Michael Schur
 
Works cited this episode:
 
The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, William ShakespeareBridgerton series, Julia QuinnFight Club, Chuck PalahniukTwilight, Stephenie MeyerThe Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. TolkienThe Shawshank Redemption, Frank DarabontTo Kill a Mockingbird, Harper LeeThe Ride of the Valkyries, Richard Wagner“Queen of the Night,” The Magic Flute, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart“Johnny B. Goode,” Chuck BerryThe Three-Body Problem, CIxin LiuContact, Carl SaganThe Art of War, Sun TzuSilo, created by Graham YostFox in Socks, Dr. SeussThe Cat in the Hat, Dr. SeussGreen Eggs and Ham, Dr. SeussGalaxy Quest, dir. Dean ParisotThe Tragedy of King Lear, William ShakespeareThe Office, developed by Greg DanielsParks and Recreation, created by Greg Daniels and Michael SchurThe Good Place, created by Michael SchurThe Apology of Socrates, PlatoBill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure, dir. Ed SolomonThe Simpsons and Philosophy, William Irwin, Mark T. Conrad, Aeon J. Skoble, editorsHarry Potter and Philosophy: If Aristotle Ran Hogwarts, David Baggett, Shawn E. Klein,William Irwin, editorsThe Legend of Zelda and Philosophy, Luke Cuddy, editorJimmy Buffett and Philosophy, Erin McKenna, Scott L. Pratt, editorsRadiohead and Philosophy, Brandon W. Forbes, George A. Reisch, editorsChicken Soup for the Soul, Jack Canfield and Mark Victor HansenZen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig

Author and screenwriter Chris Hauty joined us to discuss his latest thriller, Dead Ringer, which imagines a conspiracy around the JFK assassination—and if you think you’ve heard it all before on this topic, we assure you this novel will take you somewhere you were not expecting. Chris shared his surprising influences and offered insights about where Hollywood and book publishing overlap (and where they don’t).
Then, we ponder why books are such popular gifts when they’re actually rather fraught as an item to give someone else. What if they don’t like it? Or don’t even like books? Or you’re trying too hard? Or … what if we’re overthinking this topic. Hmm.
 
Dead Ringer by Chris Hauty is out now.
 
Works cited this episode:
 
Crossroads by Jonathan Franzen
Notes of a Dirty Old Man, Charles Bukowski
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, dir. Quentin Tarantino
Sniper: Ultimate Kill, dir. Claudio Fäh
Three Days of the Condor, dir. Sydney Pollack
Winter’s Bone, dir. Debra Granik
Winter’s Bone, Daniel Woodrell
The Da Vinci Code, Dan Brown
The Gift, Lewis Hyde
“The Gift of the Magi,” O. Henry
Profiles in Courage, John F. Kennedy
Kon-Tiki, Thor Heyerdahl
Jurassic Park, Michael Crichton
Dog Man, Dav Pilkey
Our Share of Night, Mariana Enriquez
Sister Sinner: The Miraculous Life and Mysterious Disappearance of Aimee Semple McPherson, Claire Hoffman
They Flew: A History of the Impossible, Carlos Eire
Why? The Purpose of the Universe, Philip Goff
The Nickel Boys, Colson Whitehead
“Don’t Buy Me Books,” Katherine Marciniak, Bookriot

All those “best books of the year” lists are bogus marketing material that flattens the distinct reading experience that any individual brings to a book they interact with. We tore apart the very concept of those lists in this episode. Then we shared our own Best Books list! Hypocrisy, or nuanced ability to delicately balance competing perspectives? Eh. 
Also, what is Author X up to with that crummy novel they released this year? Blind and not-so-blind items on the year’s worst books.
 
Works cited this episode:
 
Books We Love, National Public Radio
100 Notable Books of 2025, The New York Times
Sunshine on the Reaping, Suzanne Collins
Audition, Katie Mitamura
Spent, Alison Bechdel
“In Defense of the Traditional Review,” Richard Brody, The New Yorker
Luminous, Silvia Park
Audition, Pip Adam
Terrestrial History, Joe Mungo Reed
What We Can Know, Ian McEwan
The Three-Body Problem, Cixin Liu
Shadow Ticket, Thomas Pynchon
Of Monsters and Mainframes, Barbara Truelove
The Merge, Grace Walker
Severance, created by Dan Erickson
Severance, Ling Ma
The Unveiling, Quan Barry
Will There Ever Be Another You, Patricia Lockwood
Bind Me Tighter Still, Lara Ehrlich
Old Soul, Susan Barker
Metallic Realms, Lincoln Michel
Pale Fire, Vladimir Nabokov
Alchemised, SenLinYu

We’re back with more Short Stories We Love, after Nathan scoured the literary mags to find writers who deserve a closer look. Short stories aren’t just for The New Yorker! In this episode, Joey Hedger brings us a tale of cancer and terrible liqueur; Glenn Clifton joins from Canada with a story of viral infamy and relationships; and Patricia Q. Bidar shares an ode to her hometown featuring a massive explosion. 
“Her Jesus Year” by Joey Hedger is in HAD
“What You Are Looking For Is What Is Looking” by Glenn Clifton is in The Ex-Puritan
“Port Town” by Patricia Q. Bidar is in Waxwing 
 
Works cited this episode:
No One is Talking About This, Patricia LockwoodDeliver Thy Pigs, Joey Hedger"Bottom’s Dream," Glenn Clifton"Finding the Form," Glenn Clifton"Al Roosten," George SaundersThe Circle, Dave EggersSpaceballs, dir. Mel BrooksThe Jetsons, Hanna-BarberaSo You’ve Been Publicly Shamed, Jon RonsonBaywatch, created by Michael Berk, Douglas Schwartz, and Gregory J. Bonann"T Rex," Patricia Q. Bidar

We had a great time welcoming writer Amber Sparks to the show and discussing her new novel Happy People Don’t Live Here, which features a girl detective, abusive men, ghosts, a mermaid, and what it means to keep your love for someone alive long after they — or you — are gone. Amber is conflicted about the idea of Virginia Woolf using social media and, like several guests before her, stands up for the unjustly maligned second person POV. 
Then, we do a deep dive on We Love You, Bunny, this year’s follow-up to Mona Awad’s cult hit novel Bunny. We are unanimous in our belief that it is both sequel and prequel, which is both interesting and problematic. 
Amber Sparks' books can be found on her website, she can be followed on BlueSky, and her story "Your Life in Parties" is in the Substack literary Journal Short Story Long.
Works cited this episode:
 
Alice in Wonderland, Lewis CarrollHouse of Leaves, Mark Z. DanielewskiAnd I Do Not Forgive You, Amber SparksSelf-Help, Lorrie MooreThe Secret History, Donna TarttThe Theory of Everything, dir. James MarshDead Poets Society, dir. Peter WeirBabel, R.F. KuangKatabasis, R.F. KuangBunny, Mona AwadHeathers, dir. Michael LehmannMean Girls, dir. Mark WatersThe Breakfast Club, dir. John HughesThe Craft, dir. Andrew FlemingBlob, Maggie SuA Game of Thrones, George R.R. MartinThe Lost World, Michael CrichtonThe President is Missing, Bill Clinton and James PattersonThe Hardy Boys series, Franklin W. Dixon/The Stratemeyer Syndicate

We sat down with Jason Diamond, bookish man about town and author of Kaplan’s Plot, a multigenerational Jewish gangster saga in bookstores now. He made a strong case for Chicago as a literary city and for not forgetting the immigrant experience in your ancestry. Then, we pull back the curtain on back-of-the-book blurbs and other publicity tactics. “Riveting!” — Stephen King
 
Works Cited
 
The Adventures of Augie March, Saul BellowHumboldt’s Gift, Saul BellowThe Middlesteins, Jami AttenbergThe Lazarus Project, Aleksandar HemonThe House on Mango Street, Sandra CisnerosNative Son, Richard WrightThe Big Sleep, Raymond ChandlerThe Bear, created by Christopher StorerChicago Fire, created by Derek Haas and Michael BrandtThe Man with the Golden Arm, Nelson AlgrenSee Friendship, Jeremy GordonThe Godfather, Part II, dir. Francis Ford CoppolaThe Castle, Franz KafkaThe Trial, Franz KafkaIt’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, created by Rob McElhenneyWe Love You Bunny, Mona AwadThe Footprints of God, Greg IlesJonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, Susanna ClarkeMerriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition
 

We’re feeling spooky with horror author Kyle Winkler, back to discuss his latest novel, the creepy and horrifying Enter the Peerless, which starts with a private investigator trying to figure out what happened to a bunch of people who went into an abandoned trailer and never came out. Always a thoughtful and fun guest, Kyle gives us some insight into his process for this novel while establishing a mind-meld with Nathan over possible Halloween costumes.
Plus, Mason overreacts to an upcoming novel being based on the Faust myth, and demands a moratorium on Faust retellings. Will the literary establishment take note?
Enter the Peerless by Kyle Winkler is out now.
Works Cited this episode:
Moby-Dick, Herman MelvilleTreasure Island, Robert Louis StevensonPride and Prejudice, Jane AustenWomen in Love, D.H. LawrenceMiddlemarch, George Eliot“The Raven,” Edgar Allan PoeThe Return of the Native, Thomas HardyThe Mayor of Casterbridge, Thomas HardyFar from the Madding Crowd, Thomas HardyJude the Obscure, Thomas HardyLove in the Time of Cholera, Gabriel Garcia MarquezJack Reacher books, Lee ChildBeing John Malkovich, dir. Spike JonzeSuttree, Cormac McCarthyThe Road, Cormac McCarthyThe Grapes of Wrath, John SteinbeckThe Game, dir. David FincherThe School of Night, Karl Ove KnausgaardThe Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus, Christopher MarloweFaust, Charles GounodThe Devil’s Advocate, dir. Taylor HackfordDevil’s Contract: The History of the Faustian Bargain, Ed SimonThe Spanish Tragedy, Thomas KydDark Renaissance, Stephen GreenblattThe Winter of our Discontent, John SteinbeckUlysses, James JoyceThe French Lieutenant’s Woman, John FowlesParadise Lost, John MiltonThe Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet, William ShakespeareWarm Bodies, dir. Jonathan LevineCoriolanus, William ShakespeareThe Tragedy of Hamlet Prince of Denmark, William ShakespeareTitanic, dir. James CameronClueless, dir. Amy HeckerlingHamlet 2, Andrew FlemingThe Epic of GilgameshThe Odyssey, HomerSpawn, Todd McFarland