Third Person Limited: A Books Podcast

In this Hollywood special, we pre-empt awards season adaptation by reading Nobel laureate Kazuo Ishiguro’s 2021 novel Klara and the Sun, soon to be a major motion picture. An excellent book, it balances literary simplicity with philosophical inquiry into the nature of humanity in a world of artificial intelligence and robots (sounds unrealistic, that will never happen).
We devoted the entire episode to this discussion, so grab a copy at your local library and read along with us. Or just listen as we reveal all spoilers — but, you know, in a scholarly way.
 
Works cited this episode:
 
The Remains of the Day, Kazuo Ishiguro
M3GAN 2.0, dir. Gerard Johnstone
Westworld, created by Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy
Blade Runner, dir. Ridley Scott
Star Trek, created by Gene Roddenberry
Never Let Me Go, Kazuo Ishiguro
Star Wars, dir. George Lucas
The Jetsons, created by William Hanna and Joseph Barbera
Honeysuckle, Bar Friedman-Tell
Klara and the Sun, dir. Taika Waititi
The Terminator, dir. James Cameron
Thor: Love and Thunder, dir. Taika Waititi
Jojo Rabbit, dir. Taika Waititi

The inimitable Paige Lewis, “poet who wrote a novel,” joins us to discuss their critically lauded and popular-with-this-podcast’s-hosts epic prose poem Canon, as well as their writing processes and Simpsons fanaticism. You don’t want to miss this one, unless you dislike good things.
Then, Mason reviews the late author James Sallis’s final novel Backwater, and our hosts ponder whether it subverts subversive expectations or is just a meandering story of small-town cop life that doesn’t do much of anything, but does it pretty well.
 
Canon by Paige Lewis is out now.
Backwater by James Sallis is out now.
 
Works cited this episode:
 
The Simpsons, created by Matt Groening, Sim Simon, and James L. Brooks
The Odyssey, dir. Christopher Nolan
Book of Judges, the Bible
Annie Allen, Gwendolyn Brooks
The Descent of Alette, Alice Notley
Inferno, Dante Aligheri
The Chronicles of Narnia, C.S. Lewis
Out of the Silent Planet, C.S. Lewis
Rejected, dir. Don Hertzfeld
It’s Such a Beautiful Day, dir. Don Hertzfeld
Peep Show, created by Andrew O’Connor, Jesse Armstrong, and Sam Bain
The Iliad, Homer
Babylon, South Dakota, Tom Lin
Drive, James Sallis
The Killer is Dying, James Sallis
The Departed, dir. Martin Scorsese
Taxi Driver, dir. Martin Scorsese
Goodfellas, dir. Martin Scorsese
Boogie Nights, dir. Paul Thomas Anderson
There Will Be Blood, dir. Paul Thomas Anderson
One Battle After Another, dir. Paul Thomas Anderson
The Old Man and the Sea, Ernest Hemingway
Shadow Ticket, Thomas Pynchon

Crime fiction legend George Pelecanos sat down with us to talk about his latest novel, The Blue Flame, and his approach toward writing for the page and the screen. George’s attention to realism and reflecting the world as it is makes him one of the greats in this genre (even though he killed off so many characters on The Wire).
Then: How dare an expert on The Odyssey (8th Century BCE) have opinions about The Odyssey (2026) that don’t align with those of fans of The Odyssey (2026). We critique the critics criticizing a critic.
The Blue Flame is out now.
 
Works cited this episode:
 
Hard Revolution, George Pelecanos
Red Harvest, Dashiell Hammett
Yojimbo, dir. Akira Kurosawa
A Fistful of Dollars, dir. Sergio Leone
Miller’s Crossing, dir. The Coen Brothers
Last Man Standing, dir. Walter Hill
The Maltese Falcon, Dashiell Hammett
The Thin Man, Dashiell Hammett
“Honaloochie Bookie,” Mott the Hoople
“Cleaning up,” S1E12, The Wire, created by David Simon
“Middle Ground,” S3E11, The Wire, created by David Simon
Treme, created by David Simon
Creed, dir. Ryan Coogler
The Odyssey, Homer
The Odyssey, dir. Christopher Nolan
“An Uncomplicated Man,” Emily Wilson, London Review of Books
“Kicking up Cosmic Dust,” A.O. Scott, New York Times
O Brother, Where Art Thou, dir. The Coen Brothers
Jurassic Park, dir. Steven Spielberg
Blonde, Joyce Carol Oates
Predator Badlands, dir. Dan Trachtenberg
Interview with the Vampire, dir. Neil Jordan
Circe, Madeline Miller
The Epic of Gilgamesh
Interstellar, dir. Christopher Nolan

 
It’s a books-to-movies summer blockbuster episode! We’re joined by author and (former?) podcaster Mike Vago to talk about what works when translating literature to film, and what falls flat. You will not be surprised to learn that we think this process is pretty successful when Steven Spielberg is the director.
Then, Nate must grapple with the reality that his book was, in fact, published earlier this year, forever changing our relationship with Shakespeare, Descartes, and early modern philosophy.
 
Mike’s book The Planets are Very, Very, Very Far Away is on Amazon, and his podcast Why is This Not a Movie? can still be streamed almost anywhere.
 
Nate’s book Cartesian Theaters, Shakespearean Minds is out now
 
 
Adaptation, dir. Spike Jonze
Jaws, Peter Benchley
Jaws, dir. Steven Spielberg
Star Trek, created by Gene Roddenberry
Inside Out, dir. Ronnie Del Carmen and Pete Docter
Jurassic Park, Michael Crichton
Jurassic Park, dir. Steven Spielberg
One Battle After Another, dir. Paul Thomas Anderson
Magnolia, dir. Paul Thomas Anderson
Frankenstein, dir. Guillermo del Toro
Hamnet, dir. Chloe Zhao
Train Dreams, dir. Clint Bentley
Project Hail Mary, dir. Phil Lord and Christopher Miller
Wuthering Heights, dir. Emerald Fennell
The Housemaid, dir. Paul Feig
Godfather Part II, dir. Francis Ford Coppola
Earthquake, dir. Mark Robson
If Books Could Kill
He’s Just Not That Into You, dir. Ken Kwapis
What to Expect When You’re Expecting, dir. Kirk Jones
The Miniature Book of Miniature Golf, Mike Vago
The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera
Beloved, Toni Morrison
Hamlet, William Shakespeare
Ulee’s Gold, dir. Victor Nuñez
“Much Apu About Nothing,” The Simpsons
The Orchid Thief, Susan Orlean
Ghost World, dir. Terry Zwigoff
Ulysses, James Joyce
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Roald Dahl
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, dir. Mel Stuart
The Importance of Being Earnest, Oscar Wilde
Casablanca, dir. Michael Curtiz
The Shining, dir. Stanley Kubrick
Star Wars, created by George Lucas
The Chronicles of Prydain, Lloyd Alexander
“Brush with Greatness,” The Simpsons, created by Matt Groening
Shadowplay: The Hidden Beliefs and Coded Politics of William Shakespeare, Clare Asquith
The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald

It's the big one here: Sam Spade and The Maltese Falcon. With this classic, Hammett pushed himself and the boundaries of the hardboiled genre he'd already mastered to create a gem of a novel that still resonates today, nearly 100 years after its publication. The inimitable cast of stylized characters swim against an undercurrent of noir cynicism that finally defeats them all. Plus, a statue of a bird.
 
Works cited this episode:
The Maltese Falcon, Dashiell Hammett
The Glass Key, Dashiell Hammett
Reservoir Dogs, dir. Quentin Tarantino
The Maltese Falcon, dir. John Huston
Satan Met a Lady, dir. William Dieterle
The Black Bird, dir. David Giler
Return of the Maltese Falcon, 
Monsieur Spade, AMC networks
The Big Sleep, dir. Howard Hawks
The Big Sleep, Raymond Chandler
The Da Vinci Code, dir. Ron Howard
"The Big Knockover," Dashiell Hammett
"$106,000 Blood Money," Dashiell Hammett
"This King Business," Dashiell Hammett

We welcomed legendary novelist and short story writer T.C. Boyle to the show, to discuss his latest novel, No Way Home. T.C. also shared some very depressing thoughts about environmental catastrophe, which he has chronicled extensively in his fiction, and some less depressing thoughts about his approach to the craft of writing. 
Then, Nathan explains why he doesn't like the Black Eyed Peas, but isn't mad about it, either. Maybe we should all aspire to such equanimity.
Works cited this episode:
Already Dead, Denis Johnson
A Friend of the Earth, T.C. Boyle
The Tortilla Curtain, T.C. Boyle
Blue Skies, T.C. Boyle
The Terranauts, T.C. Boyle
“After the Plague,” T.C. Boyle
October Light, John Gardner
“Let’s Get It Started,” The Black Eyed Peas
A Court of Thorn and Roses, Sarah J. Maas
The Sea, John Banville
Jesus’ Son, Denis Johnson
 

 
We launch the Summer of Dashiell Hammett with our deep dive on the Continental Op, the unnamed private investigator who starred in 28 stories and two novels. The San Francisco-based Op delivered a hardboiled fist to the drawing rooms, tea parties, and other twee scenarios that constituted detective fiction before his advent, changing the face of the genre forever.
We also dug into Angel Down, the most recent Pulitzer winner for fiction, and found this story of a celestial being who is dragged through the muck of World War I’s trenches compelling in spite of the gimmick that Nate didn’t like.
Works cited this episode:
 
Red Harvest, Dashiell Hammett
The Dain Curse, Dashiell Hammett
“This King Business,” Dashiell Hammett
The Maltese Falcon, Dashiell Hammett
The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, Arthur Conan Doyle
“The Tenth Clew,” Dashiell Hammett
Beyond Good and Evil, Friedrich Nietzsche
Truth and Method, Hans-Georg Gadamer
Angel Down, Daniel Kraus
Herscht 07769, László Krasznahorkai
House of Leaves, Mark Z. Danielewski
Infinite Jest, David Foster Wallace
Angels in America, Tony Kushner
Dracula, Bram Stoker
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen
ttyl, Lauren Myracle
Ulysses, James Joyce
The Odyssey, Homer
O Brother Where Art Thou, dir. Ethan and Joel Coen

We were excited to have novelist and musician Willy Vlautin join us for a discussion about his career in both fields and his newest novel, The Left and the Lucky, which John Mulaney called “electric.” Willy covered his influences, why it was great to learn that some random lady hates him, and the interplay between his career as a songwriter and writer of fiction.
 
Then, what’s it like to read everything a single author wrote over just one summer? For us, of course, this means tackling crime fiction master Dashiell Hammett’s entire output. Hammett might not be on the New York Times’ “Best Summer Reads” list, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t curl up on a beach towel with his highly polished stories of violence, irony, and bootleg whiskey.
 
Works cited this episode:
 
Don’t Skip Out on Me, Willy Vlautin
"Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?" Joyce Carol Oates
The Night Always Comes, Willy Vlautin
Lean on Pete, Willy Vlautin
Northline, Willy Vlautin
A Game of Thrones, George R.R. Martin
The Deverry Cycle, Katharine Kerr
The Murderbot Diaries, Martha Wells
Breaking Bad, created by Vince Gilligan
The Sopranos, created by David Chase
The Millennium trilogy, Stieg Larsson
The Space Trilogy, C.S. Lewis
The Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. Tolkien
iCarly, created by Dan Scheider
Executive Orders, Tom Clancy
Dombey and Sons, Charles Dickens
Great Expectations, Charles Dickens
Jazz, Toni Morrison
Sula, Toni Morrison
The Maltese Falcon, Dashiell Hammett
Spade and Archer, Joe Gores
The Bourne Identity, Robert Ludlum

We’re going to Hell with literary man-about-town Ed Simon, founder of the Pittsburgh Review of Books (with which our podcast is affiliated) and author of Devil’s Contract: The History of the Faustian Bargain. Ed helps us figure out why the legend of Faust still feels fresh in our world today, where nobody ever makes short-sighted deals that turn out badly in the end.
 
Then, we put Catcher in the Rye on trial. Does it deserve its vaunted position in the high school curriculum? And what do we want high schoolers reading, anyway, you big phony?
 
Ed Simon has several books out now.
 
Works cited this episode:
 
“Hypergraphia: On Prolific Writers and the Persistent Need to Produce,” Ed Simon, LitHub
“The New Fabio is Claude,” The New York Times
The Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus, Christopher Marlowe
“Bart Sells His Soul,” The Simpsons
Hellraiser, dir. Clive Barker
Morphology of the Folk Tale, Vladimir Propp
“The Devil Went Down to Georgia,” Charlie Daniels Band
“Theophilus,” The Book of Drama, Hrotsvitha
On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century, Timothy D. Snyder
“High School English and the Making of American Readers,” Alexander Manshel, American Literary History
The Catcher in the Rye, J.D. Salinger
“Texts Most Frequently Taught in U.S. Secondary Classrooms are Nearly Identical to List from Decades Ago,” National Council of Teachers of English
Romeo and Juliet, William Shakespeare
The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
The Crucible, Arthur Miller
Macbeth, William Shakespeare
Of Mice and Men, John Steinbeck
To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee
Night, Elie Wiesel
Hamlet, William Shakespeare
Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury
Frankenstein, Mary Shelley
King Dork, Frank Portman
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain
Tom Brown’s School Days, Thomas Hughes
The Outsiders, S.E. Hinton
1984, George Orwell
Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare

Women everywhere have an indescribable urge to get up and go west. That would be weird if it was real; in the hands of Alice Martin, author of the novel Westward Women, it’s not only weird but an incredible conceit for a thoughtful work of literary fiction that’s among the best books we’ve read this year. We were lucky to get Alice as a guest.
This was followed by some deep thoughts about exposition in fiction, such as “what is it” and “is it for girls?” Turns out it’s for everyone, but there may be some expectations about how manly men writers don’t do much of it, because it’s not masculine to tell people what you’re thinking, I guess?
Westward Women is out now.
 
Works Cited this episode:
 
A New Home, Who’ll Follow? Caroline Kirkland
On the Calculation of Volume, Solvej Balle
Bunny, Mona Awad
The Husbands, Holly Gramazio
Once and Again, Rebecca Serle
The Sun Also Rises, Ernest Hemingway
The Orchard Keeper, Cormac McCarthy
Brighton Rock, Graham Greene
One Hundred Years of Solitude, Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Legends of the Fall, Jim Harrison
Speak, Memory, Vladimir Nabokov
The Housemaid, Freida McFadden
Mockingjay, Suzanne Collins
Legends of the Fall, dir. Edward Zwick